Pigeon Pie?

Jack and I discovered inadvertently that both of us have forbears who raised pigeons and doves. That led us to contemplate their possible uses for the backyard homesteader or rural farm alike, and whether they might be a good and affordable "fit" for us as far as harvesting for food, feather, and fertilizer (and beauty...I love birds...)

For more ponderings, this was the subject of my post today over at Not Dabbling in Normal...

Got squab?

ECHO Global Farm Goat House

It's taken me a while to post more of our pics from the ECHO test farm tour. Their test farm is amazing and approximates several different types of climates in order to develop multi-purpose crops using low-tech sustainable methods to be used in developing countries. Many of the planting techniques and actual under-utilized plants Jack and I've been interested knowing more about are featured there...it was exciting seeing so many all in one place!

This was their goat house. There was so much to fit into the tour, and we didn't get unlimited time to poke around and measure and fiddle to our hearts' content, but here's what we were able to gather at the time...

The structure was made as a solution to many third world farmers' dilemma...how to raise goats on small land parcels without sustaining damage to crops. Goats are an important animal in many cultures, useful for milk, meat, skins, bartering, and sometimes fiber.

ECHO's goat house was their working solution: an elevated structure made of found materials or available wood. It is large enough to comfortably accomodate several small to medium-sized goats, and the wooden slats are substantial enough to be strong, and are spaced to allow for air circulation on all sides...but to keep predators out. There was a feeding trough along one side, and the slats were spaced to allow goats to extend their heads to the trough for eating forage, but not enough to allow the goats to escape.

Beneath the troughs, trimmed limbs and forage leaves/plants were piled. As the goats finished what was in the troughs, the trimmings could be easily rotated upward to refill the troughs.

It's hard to tell in these pictures, but the building was positioned raised above a dirt slope. Animal droppings fall through the floor slats to the ground below, and are raked down the underneath slope into the open to be collected and used for fertilizer. Any uneaten twigs and branches from the fodder are put into the compost pile.

We've never had goats, but know enough about them from others to know they're talented escape artists. We weren't able to study the structure to see how they're prevented from getting out, but it's obvious this structure works well and has been used successfully for some time. The goats did not seem crowded, seemed to enjoy being higher up off the ground and in the shade rather than direct sunlight. And there was no way they'd ever be standing on wet ground.

Several forages are used for them...one is moringa, a multi-use tree good for animals and humans. Here is a stand of moringa, harvested 7 times a year (if memory serves) by what seems to be a coppicing method (or is it a pollarding one?) since the tree trunks are cut at regular intervals after harvesting their quick-growing branches. These can be fed to animals such as the goats, for fodder, harvested for human consumption (leaves), or for low-tech water purification (leaves again). Here is a stand of coppiced moringa trees. The trunks are 2 to 3 feet high and the branch growth was about waist high or so.

Here is a mature moringa, a different variety than the above. This one stores water in its trunk and can endure punishing drought.

That's all for now...we enjoyed seeing their solution to the goat dilemma. Goats can easily decimate a garden, yet this goat house situated in close proximity to surrounding gardens kept the cycle beneficial to not only humans, but supplied the goats with fodder that otherwise would have been a plant waste. In eating them, the goats gained nutrition, produced fertilizer and milk, and the garden benefitted again, continuing the circle.

More ECHO fun to come, as I have time to post!

Reader Answers to Chicken Question

The answers to the list of questions I posted on my recent post were so wonderful and specific, I thought they deserved to be their own post instead of hiding in the comments section. If you haven't been able to add yours yet, if you put your answer in comments here, I'll just cut and paste them into the text here, no worries.

A HUGE thank you to all who have contributed your wisdom and thoughts about these questions! Thank you! We're learning so much :)

Here are the original questions I asked (your answers are posted further down):

For all the folks out here in blogland who keep chickens, or have kept chickens, I have a couple questions...

1. Do you have a particular favorite breed of chicken, and if so what is it and why do you prefer it? Or if more than one, which ones, etc?

2. Do you use your chickens for your family, to sell, or both? Meat, or eggs, or both?

3. What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start out raising them, other than reading some good books on the subject?

4. Do you primarily keep your chickens in a coop/enclosed chicken yard, or do they roam your property?

5. Do you ever let them into your garden? If no, do you have a fence or something to keep them out?

6. Do you ever use a chicken tractor, and if so, is it for meat birds only? do you use electric/ net poultry fencing? I'm interested in which has worked for you and which has not. What has been your experience with pastured poultry 'a la the Joel Salatin sort (follow behind the livestock grazings at the optimum time), if that applies?

7. Do you keep chickens year-round, or raise them for seasonal processing?

8. How many chickens of a certain type do you raise at one time (what works best for you as far as how many to raise at a time?)Inquiring minds (me!) want to know. I've seen so many folks with their own styles of chicken raising, and I'm so curious to know what works best for you...

Here are your wonderful answers!

Donna said...
I don't have any chickens now, but I surely did have to keep them penned up when I had them. By day, roving neighborhood dogs would chase and kill them. By night, it was the racoons, foxes, coyotes and possums. Especially possums. They'd simply eat the head off the chicken and leave the body for me to dispose of.
November 10, 2008 1:30 PM

fullfreezer said...
I don't have any chickens either, but I have wondered the same questions. I look forward to the answers you get. Vicarious information gathering... fun, isn't it, full freezer ? R
November 10, 2008 2:46 PM

Country Girl said...
Wow, lots of questions. We have Barred Rocks and Rhode Island Reds. I like them both, the Reds are suppose to be better layers and the Barred rocks are mild mannered and easier to handle. We have 12 RRR and 24 Barred Rocks and their primary purpose is as layers although after a few years when their egg production reduces drastically they may be headed to the freezer. During the summer we were getting 2 + dozen a day but now that the days are shorter we get approx 1 dozen a day.

We sell our excess eggs for $2 a dozen.We also raise meat birds Cornish Rocks. We buy 100-200 at a time sell all but 20-30 and then raise the remaining for our own consumption. Lots of great info on line about raising chickens...nothing in particular???

They all reside in chicken tractors attached to portable fencing in spring, summer, and fall. This allows them to have fresh greens readily available and clean bedding. We move them every 3-4 days and in the late fall/winter they are in the barn. After they are done laying for the day usually 12-1 I open up the door and they free range in the yard until dark then they all voluntarily go back to roost is their coop.

In the warmer months we keep them penned because they are very destructive to the garden!They also lay wherever and I cherish every egg I get and do not want to risk loosing out on some.

Hope this helps! ~Kim :) It does, thanks, Kim! :) R
November 10, 2008 3:14 PM

Stephanie said...
We are still novices, but here is my two cents.

1. We've had Rhode Island Reds and Buff Orpingtons. The Reds were good layers, but they are a smaller bird and the roosters tend to be mean. (if your going to keep one.) The Buffs are very gentle larger birds. Their size limits their ability to get out of the fence (The Reds wings had to be clipped) They lay large eggs. Haven't butchered any of them yet...

2 Meat and eggs for us, but I'm considering buying quite a few more to sell eggs

3 They really are pretty easy. Start small and you can always grow your flock.

4 Ours are pastured. They used to free roam which was fine when there were only a few, but too messy when we got more. (poop and scratching out everything)

5 The escapees get in the garden I'd like to tractor them in the garden, but haven't yet

6 Ours in the pasture with the other animals and have access under the rabbit hutches. I'm not sure about the method you refer to. Having them clean up after the other animals, sure keeps the flies down.

7 year round

8 We have 14 hens right now. The older ones have slowed way down.. (kicking my self for not getting chicks last spring.) We are barely getting enough for us (6) plus my parents. (about 4-5 per day) At their prime they laid at about a 80-90% rate

HOpe that helps Thanks, Stephanie :) R
November 10, 2008 4:19 PM

Christine said...
1. I have several different breeds and love them all.

2. Yes, yes, yes and yes.

3. Check out http://www.backyardchickens.com/

4. Ours are in an enclosed area to keep them protected from predators.

5. No.

6. I've not used the tractor, but would love to do so. It's a great concept.

7. I keep them year round, they're fun.

8. I have about 23 layers right now. You would really only need about three if you only want eggs for yourself. I love my chickens. Go for it!
November 10, 2008 5:55 PM

Christina said...
We got our first chickens this spring. We had to do some research first.

We wanted winter hardy with decent egg laying out put. I put together a list of preferred breeds. When we went to the feed store, they didn't have my 1st 3 choices, so my second string choices were all there and so we came home with 3 of each buff orpington, NH reds, and barred rock. We got them for egg laying. And boy do they lay eggs. On avg. 7 eggs a day times 7 days equals about 4 dozen eggs a week!

We kept them in Sugars old crate for a bout a month and a half. Then they got their own tractor. We live too close to a road and predators and since we rent, we didn't want a permanent structure. So we move the tractor to fresh ground every day. We let them out in the evening for a little while. They are quite happy to go back and roost.

I love my chickens. They actually all have names. Now, this is the funny part.... We got 9 straight run day old chicks. We thought that we would lose a couple. But no... still have 9. The other extraordinary thing is that we only ended up with one rooster! Oh, well ... didn't intend to write a novel! Did I say I love my chickens???? Do you love your chickens or something?? lol ;-) R
November 10, 2008 5:58 PM

Laughing Orca Ranch said...
1)I've raising chickens for a little over a year. I chose two of each kind to see which would be my favorites.

Here's the chickens we chose and my favorites in order:

*speckled sussex (super friendly, more like a dog then a chicken, heritage breed, beautiful and regular brown egg-layer)

*barred rock (very friendly, regular brown egg layer)

*americaunas (friendly, calm, regular blue/green egg layer. One of ours even lays pink eggs)*rhode island red (friendly, daily brown egg layer)

*silver laced wyandotte (flighty, not as friendly, good tan egg layer)

*brown leghorns (daily white egg layer. tends to be agressive with other chickens, egg eaters, not as social with people. These are the same breed used in factory farming)

We also have:

*japanese silky

*polish

They both lay eggs, but are more 'decorative' as they don't lay as often. Polish aren't usually eaten, though Silkies are a special delicacy in Japan, due to the Silky's black skin, meat, even bones.We got them jus for fun and for my kids to show at the State Fair. We are also planning on breeding the silkies to sell the chicks next year, too.

2. We use the eggs for our family. We go through at least 2-3 dozen eggs a week in baking and cooking, egg salad, etc. We sell the rest for $2.00 a dozen and always have a waiting list for our eggs.Don't have any plans to butcher any yet. My husband might faint. lol!

3. Build your coop BEFORE your chicks arrive! lol! We waited and then were racing. Chicks grow so fast!Also, decide what time of year you want chickens. There are pros and cons. We bought ours in the fall because I wanted eggs in the Spring, and all summer long. Most people wait until Spring to buy chicks, and then have to wait until late summer for eggs, and then the chickens slow down egg laying during the winter.Downside to Fall chicks is having to keep the chicks inside for the first couple months, and then providing a heat lamp for them most of the winter.

4. Ours primarily live in a coop, due to predators, especially hawks and stray dogs. But we allow them to free range when we can be outside with them.

5. Only before planting anything to till the soil, or afterwards to clean up the dead plants. Chickens are otherwise too destructive.

6. I have no experience with those things.

7. Year-round egg layers.

8. This is just our family flock and we have 17 chickens. We sell the extra eggs to pay for the chickens feed.Happy Poultry Raising!! :)~LisaNew Mexico Thanks, Lisa! R
November 10, 2008 6:59 PM

Wendy said...
1. We have seven chickens and seven different breeds. They all have their merits, but I have to say that for egg color, I love our Araucunas (green eggs! ;). For temperment, I love our Rhode Island Red, our Light Brahma and our Australorp - all of which were very good layers and are considered good "multi-purpose" birds, which means they're good as layers and as meat birds. The leghorns, while purported to be good layers, are flighty, and not as good around children, which is a must for us, as my children spend a lot of time in the coop. We also have a buff orpington and, what we think is, a plymouth rock.

2. We do not sell eggs or meat, although when our chickens are all laying, our neighbor "buys" a dozen eggs a week.

3. Pick a breed that's good in your area. Some chickens work very well in cold temperatures and some do better where it's warm. Build a REALLY strong, sturdy and predator proof coop BEFORE you put the chickens in there, and I would even suggest that you build the coop and then put some strong-smelling something in it to see if anything gets in. Better to know where your weaknesses are before a raccoon chews the head off your best laying hen.

4. Primarily our chickens stay in their coop, but we let them out occasionally - more during the spring and summer than this time of year. We try to let them out for a couple of hours a couple times per week, usually right before dusk so that they'll put themselves "away" when the sun goes down.

5. We have a very small space, and so, when I let the chickens out, they do have access to my garden. When the plants are young, I will either be out in the yard with the chickens to shoo them away from the raised beds, or I just wait until the plants are more mature, when the chickens won't do as much damage. But I like that they'll eat the bugs off the broccoli and tomato plants, and they scratch under the plants and aerate the soil, which some of my plants seem to like.

6. We raised broilers in a chicken tractor that we built using PVC pipe and hardware cloth. The bottom was open to the ground, but there was a top. We did not use electricity, but we made sure to cover the tractor at night and for the first few weeks, before they got bigger than my beagle, we locked them up in a dog crate at night inside the tractor which was covered with a tarp that was weighted down with logs. Anything that wanted to get in there would have to work at it a bit. It worked very well. We started with eight broiler chicks, raised them for ten weeks, and put eight 5.5 lbs fully dressed chickens in the freezer.

7. We keep the laying hens year round. The broilers are a seasonal thing, as our butcher only does chickens from May to August.

8. See number one. I did read, however, that keeping a variety for a small backyard flock is a good idea. I don't remember where I read it, or why it's a good idea. We love the different personalities of our hens, and the eggs are so much fun - all colors of the "egg rainbow" from white to dark brown with a green one thrown in there when Emily feels like it. As an additional comment, I highly recommend getting chickens. They're a wonderful addition to any homestead - large or small. We have only a quarter of an acre, and chickens are a big part of our self-sufficiency plans :).
November 10, 2008 7:01 PM

Jo said...
We have bunches of chickens. Japanese bantams, Faverolle bantams and regular, ISA Browns, Americaunas, Sumatras, Silkies, probably others.

1. I love the hardiness of Americaunas. The Silkies are great brooders.

2. We do Cornish crosses in spring and summer for the freezer, and we cull roos and older hens for soup. ISA Browns lay large, gorgeous eggs. We have some extra in summer, but usually give them away.

3. I would recommend fearing not. You CAN love a chicken.

4. Some of ours live in the coop on our property (large and already here). Others live in the barn. They all roam freely.

5. We lock them out of the garden and away from the bees. Fences.

6. Ours roam the pasture. They love the sheep, the sheep seem to like them, and our flies are not bad at all.

7. We try to cull as many as possible by now, to keep feed costs down.

8. When we do meat birds, we order 25 at a time. We hand process here by ourselves. I would not want to do more than 30 in a day, personally.I love my chickens. They are such a part of our farm life.
November 10, 2008 7:08 PM

Throwback at Trapper Creek said...
Gosh all of that depends on what you expect from your chickens.

We liked the Barred Rocks for our "commercial" layers, they were calm and good layers. If you want to raise your own chicks you need a broody breed that likes to set like the Buff Orpington. For meat, I like the Cornish X, but I know that is an unpopular choice, but they do well and they are especially suited for tractors. I don't like the mess chickens leave, poop and scratching so the tractors work well for us. It is also a great way to build your garden soil, with a deep bedding in the tractor. I didn't particularly care for my visit at Andy Lee's farm, but his book Chicken Tractor is full of good sound advice for start to finish on meat birds and layers.

If you mail order your chicks you have to order a minimum of 25, some hatcheries allow mixing and matching of breeds. Mail order is a good way to avoid chicks getting medicated feed. It is common practice at feedstores to feed medicated feed right off the bat. A lot of health problems can be headed off by NOT giving medicated feed. But it is hard to find counsel that believes that and will recommend no antibiotic laced feed.

As for Joel's methods, again not popular with homesteaders, but they have worked the best for us. Joel really does know what he is doing. I think most people anthromorphise farm animals and discard Joel's methods as too production oriented. But, while production oriented, Salatin's livestock is treated very well.

The electric poultry netting from Premier is well worth the money. Ours is still good and we have abused it for over 8 years.

And we are strictly seasonal, it costs too much to raise poultry against the seasons. Think nature. However, your growing season is so different, you might be looking to raise your birds in the cooler part of the year, since they don't take the heat all that well.Gosh, I guess I hijacked this post didn't I? Oops. I wondered why the terrain below was suddenly looking like Cuba...haha, just kidding, Nita ;-) R
November 10, 2008 11:19 PM

Phelan said...
Answers on my blog. Neat! Thanks, Phelan ~R
November 11, 2008 5:05 AM

Throwback at Trapper Creek said...
I meant seasonal on meat chickens and turkeys, we keep laying hens year around.:)
November 11, 2008 6:42 AM

Just trying to be green said...
(I just wandered by, via Homesteading Neophyte. I had chickens growing up, and I'm going to get them again in a few months)

1. Do you have a particular favorite breed of chicken, and if so what is it and why do you prefer it? Or if more than one, which ones, etc?I love Barred Rocks. They are so friendly, hardy, calm, and ours laid well. I loved their eggs because they would lay eggs with purple speckles and pink dots.

2. Do you use your chickens for your family, to sell, or both? Meat, or eggs, or both?We raised mainly for my family. Mostly it was for eggs, but we did do meat birds occasionally.

3. What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start out raising them, other than reading some good books on the subject?Start out small (i.e., don't go out and buy 100 chicks), and start out with good housing. Also, if you buy those cornish-cross meat birds, don't think all chickens are that dull, slow, or ugly. Just saying.

4. Do you primarily keep your chickens in a coop/enclosed chicken yard, or do they roam your property?Depends. Most of the time, they are kept in sheds at night, and let loose during the day. Sometimes we use chicken tractors.

5. Do you ever let them into your garden? If no, do you have a fence or something to keep them out?They usually had access to the garden. If there was something that needed protection, it got it's own little covering.

6. Do you ever use a chicken tractor, and if so, is it for meat birds only? do you use electric/ net poultry fencing? I'm interested in which has worked for you and which has not. What has been your experience with pastured poultry 'a la the Joel Salatin sort (follow behind the livestock grazings at the optimum time), if that applies?We used tractors with the laying hens (next boxes built in), and when we wanted to isolate a breeding pair We're also used them with ducks. It worked pretty well- except that my dad built it, and he didn't take into account who would be moving it. Most of my childhood, it took two people or more (where people are children) to move one. I really like chicken tractors, but if you design your own plans- take care with moveability and sturdiness.

7. Do you keep chickens year-round, or raise them for seasonal processing?We keep them year roung.

8. How many chickens of a certain type do you raise at one time (what works best for you as far as how many to raise at a time?)Generally around 12-20. My family eats a lot of eggs, and there are 6 of us.
November 11, 2008 9:06 AM

farm mom said...
1. well, my favorites have been the barred rock, buff orpington, and black australorps. These were the calmest breeds, the friendliest breeds and the ones who went broody readily. They were also winter hardy! If I lived in your climate I have to admit I'd be more than a little tempted to raise some of those rarest of rare breeds listed on ther ALBC website, who are smaller and more suited to your climate than mine. I also am really enjoying my Easter Eggers and my Silver Grey Dorkings this year as well, but I've only had them this year and don't have as much experience with them as I had the others.

2. We raise dual purpose birds for both meat and eggs. My parents put up a sign and sell their excess eggs and I've sold a few there, but I usually just freeze my excess and keep them for leaner winter months.

3. Know your goals. Do you want reliable eggs? Are you more interested in the huge-breasted meaties? Do you want a middle of the road bird who does well at both? Are you thinking about having a breeding flock, or just raising them seasonally? If you want to breed, will you keep more than one roo? Where? separate coops for separate breeds? A rooster bachelor pad? Stick with one breed and one roo, or create mutts? Is ranging important to you? What are the likely predators in your area? How will you deal with them? Know your goals in terms of that bucolic farm scene as well as in productin needs. My advice is to really sit down and figure out what your goal is with this future flock of yours. Not only will the answers to these questions steer you towards a breed or set of breeds, but it will do wonders in dampening any future disappointments in your flock. I also recommend a local source, be it a farm or local small hatchery. I've used larger hatcheries over the years but lately the quality has really been horrible. Nothing is worse than opening that box and getting most birds dead or dying, disease, illness and deformities. No eyes, extra legs, twisted beaks.... you get the idea.

4. My chickens have all 3. A coop, a run and free range. The coop is mainly used for laying and sleeping, and of course winter shelter. I keep them confined to a run in the morning hours, while they're laying. So, they can get outside, scratch about, and still lay those eggs where they belong. Come afternoon they're out and about in the yard until nightfall. I like this set up because I am free to leave the property for a weekend, or on errands and I know the birds are safe, but still have outside access.

5. Yes, my birds have access to my gardens. They do wonders for the bugs, particularly in spring/fall when they can really get in there and turn over the earth, looking for overwintering bugs, slugs and insect eggs. During the ripening season, it can get a bit hairy, particularly the tomato patch. I usually cover any raised beds that I don't want them to have access to with a floating row cover or bird netting.

6. No, I've never used a tractor. If I was ever considering selling I would. I enjoy reading about Joel Salatin's methods I think he has revolutionized the idea that food production had to be mechanical and industrial.

7. I keep them year round, as we want a breeder flock. We keep the hens for eggs and cull the older birds and the extra roos for meat.

8. I've had as many as 50, but usually keep between 12 and 20. I have had both mixed flocks and same-breed flocks and have enjoyed both. Usually the 16-18 mark is enough to keep us well supplied in eggs and meat. (I don't use forced lighting in the winter to make my girls lay, so while that may seem like a lot of eggs for a family of four, keep in mind that their laying slows/stops in the winter months, so I stock pile our summer surplus to get us through.)Hope that helped robbyn! It does! Oh how I wish we had chickens RIGHT NOW :) R
November 11, 2008 10:10 AM

mommymommyland said...
Hey, I was writing about chickens today too, so I just added your answers to my post. You can find them here Thanks, Robin! ~R
November 11, 2008 11:20 AM

Michelle at Boulderneigh said...
You've probably figured out my answers from my blog, but I'll recap here.

I only keep chickens for eggs, so long-lived, good-laying, friendly birds are my top priority.

Easter-Eggs are tops on my list. They come in many colors, as do their eggs, which they lay regularly. We only got our chickens this year, but a friend with vast experience (she even raised SHOW chickens) says they lay for a good, long time. I plan to keep my chickens to old age, so that's good.

Our neighbor used to raise organic eggs for sale, and she put 2 or 3 at a time in a small tractor to keep her little garded weeded and de-bugged. My husband has a thing with big bird poop, so ours have a coop and a fenced yard.
November 11, 2008 1:00 PM

Rena said...
Rocks and Orpingtons are good for both meat and eggs. We like them both--they have less meat than the fast growing Cornish crosses but it tastes much better.

Araucanas/Americanas (not fancy pure bred ones)lay the pastel eggs and are very popular if you are going to sell any eggs.

We have had meat ones in a tractor. We have let our chickens out to roam once in a while. They are easy to get back in where their feed is. I have put the tractor in the garden at the end of the season. It is helpful to have a dog who gets used to the chickens and won't attack them. He will keep the critters away from the birds.

These are disjointed comments, sorry. I love them, thanks! R
November 11, 2008 1:43 PM

hickchick said...
I'm late to this post...but I'll throw this out to anyone still still reading...does anyone have experience with growing their own feed for winter or buying whole grains-something other than the expensive 50# bags from the feed store?
November 11, 2008 2:54 PM

Alan said...
I thought I left a response to this question. If I didn't I left a very detailed response about chickens on someone's blog. They may be wondering why. We have raised both layers and meat chickens and used fixed coops, mobile coops with poultry netting, and chicken tractors for each. I like the poultry netting best. It gives you more flexibility, longer life, and less labor than tractors and healthier chickens than a fixed yard. If you didn't get my response shoot me a question on my blog and I'll do a post. My response was rather like a book. I didn't get it, Alan...so sorry! I look forward to whatever you post about it :)
November 11, 2008 3:07 PM

tygab said...
Here's what I posted on our blog for answers...

1. Do you have a particular favorite breed of chicken, and if so what is it and why do you prefer it? Or if more than one, which ones, etc?Fairly new to chickens, so I have no strong preferences. Our black sex links are laying like crazy, and our Blue Laced Red Wyandotte roo is quite the looker. Though he is a big baby. The Easter Eggers lay fun eggs and are pretty chickens, too. If I were going just for volume, the black sex links would win.

2. Do you use your chickens for your family, to sell, or both? Meat, or eggs, or both?We have our layer hens and we only plan to sell the excess (to friends, coworkers, family). We subsidized the raising of 10 meat birds at another farm, and we've had 1-2 roasters a month since they were processed in July. This usually translates to several meals for 2 based on a 5-6 lb bird. The meat birds were able to enjoy fresh pasture and were fed w/organic feed.

3. What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start out raising them, other than reading some good books on the subject?Backyardchicens.com, and build a strong run. Don't skimp on the housing and fencing, though the very resourceful can get a lot of building materials through yardsales, Craigslist etc. Just make sure it will be a clean and dry home. Overestimate the size you need, you can always add chickens if you want to later!

4. Do you primarily keep your chickens in a coop/enclosed chicken yard, or do they roam your property?Our chickens stay in the run area for most of the time. We let them out only when we are ourselves outside doing work around the barn, yard, etc. We usually do this late in the day so twilight gets them back in the run. However, a cup of scratch tossed in the run will usually work too!

5. Do you ever let them into your garden? If no, do you have a fence or something to keep them out?Uhm, yes, they have gone in our garden. It is not fenced from them. But our garden was not a wild success this summer. Next summer may be different.

6. Do you ever use a chicken tractor, and if so, is it for meat birds only? do you use electric/ net poultry fencing? I'm interested in which has worked for you and which has not. What has been your experience with pastured poultry 'a la the Joel Salatin sort (follow behind the livestock grazings at the optimum time), if that applies?We do not use a tractor for the layers. The meat birds were in a tractor for much of the time.

7. Do you keep chickens year-round, or raise them for seasonal processing?Year round; it'll be our first winter with the hens.

8. How many chickens of a certain type do you raise at one time (what works best for you as far as how many to raise at a time?)I think this depends on your goals. If it's just family eggs you want, a half dozen may be enough. We have 12 hens and 1 roo, in part because I figured a few wouldn't make it. They all did! But we're happy anyway, a dozen seems like a good number for us.Inquiring minds (me!) want to know. I've seen so many folks with their own styles of chicken raising, and I'm so curious to know what works best for you...Raising them from chicks is very rewarding!

P~ said...
Hi Robbyn, I imagine you probably already read my post about my chickens. (Funny that I posted and you asked on the same day huh? Great bloggers must think alike.)

I think it answers most of the questions that you asked here but maybe a few.

I raise leghorns, not for their marvelous companionship skills (not) but for their prodigeous laying. I had a few barred rock roosters that came as additional birds with my chick order and I really liked them. Very nice birds, also they tasted very good...(answer 2).

I don't specifically rais them for meat, but roos are not allowed so that was the best way to deal with.

Advice would be to be truly honest about why you are getting them, and what your environment will sustain. i.e. do you want "pets" that lay, or livestock only? Do you have a fenced area protected from animals where they can range or will they need greens brought to them as do mine? They do free range occasionally but never in the garden!My coop has been designed to be able to be made mobile, but has not been yet. Next year.I have 9 birds, and I will be raising them all year primarily for egg production.

Best of luck to you!

P~ Thanks, P! Yes, your recent writing on this subject was perfect timing...hope everyone stops by your place for a read! R

RazorFamilyFarms.com said...
Excellent read! Of course, my lazy back end didn't make it over here to comment on this post but had I done so -- I would have said that my favorite chicken breed is the Buff Orpington because they are dual purpose birds. They have a nice sturdy build and lots of layers of feathers so they keep warm and continue laying eggs through the winter. How do I love them? Let me count the ways!Blessings!Lacy

Phelan said...
I answered hickchick over here.

The Thinker said...
I answered here http://thinkersrock.blogspot.com/2008/11/how-do-your-chickens-grow.html. (Sorry, I don't know how to use the tags) And now i have to take time to read everyone else's answers. (sigh) I love chickens.

jayedee said...
a day late and a dollar short...that's my mantra lolanyway, here are my answers

1. Do you have a particular favorite breed of chicken, and if so what is it and why do you prefer it? Or if more than one, which ones, etc?honestly, i really like my production reds. nothing phases them. i have two elderly (9 years old) that are still laying several eggs a week. ALL of my heritage breeds quit laying when hurricane faye rolled thru and haven't laid a single egg since.

2. Do you use your chickens for your family, to sell, or both? Meat, or eggs, or both?both and both

3. What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start out raising them, other than reading some good books on the subject?start small and with some variety so you can make educated choices. don't discount what the oldtimers have to say either (even when their advice sounds somewhat bizarre)

4. Do you primarily keep your chickens in a coop/enclosed chicken yard, or do they roam your property? my girls roam the entire property when there isn't a garden actively growing

5. Do you ever let them into your garden? If no, do you have a fence or something to keep them out? the forage in the garden when it's clean up time.....when the garden is growing/fruiting, they're confined to the chicken yards

6. Do you ever use a chicken tractor, and if so, is it for meat birds only? do you use electric/ net poultry fencing? I'm interested in which has worked for you and which has not. What has been your experience with pastured poultry 'a la the Joel Salatin sort (follow behind the livestock grazings at the optimum time), if that applies?i use small tractors when i'm transitioning from the brooder to the poultry yards. i have no experience with poultry raised completely on pasture

7. Do you keep chickens year-round, or raise them for seasonal processing? year round for the dual purpose breeds, the strictly meat birds are seasonal

8. How many chickens of a certain type do you raise at one time (what works best for you as far as how many to raise at a time?)Inquiring minds (me!) want to know. I've seen so many folks with their own styles of chicken raising, and I'm so curious to know what works best for you... i ALWAYS have too many dadgum chickens lol but i think about 50 would work best for me (maybe not for danny though lol)
November 12, 2008 12:03 PM

Killi said...
1. My eldest was given a Cochin chick a year after her father's arrest & removal. He hated being alone & cried, until I found out that he was a Mumiy Troll'fan & then he "sang". My other 2 childer were then given a Cochin chick each ~ we were lucky as we ended up with 2 girls & the cockerel from hell. Welsummers came because I'd heard that they were good layers & I wanted to supplement our money with egg sales. Eldest fell in love with Silkies ~ an ancient fluffy Chinese breed, so they joined us. Buff Orpingtons came because my chicken mentor was selling her stock off after her sister died & she re evaluated her life. I moved to Ireland & Cuckoo Marans (along with KC ducks) joined us after the Orpingtons died/were killed. I gave someone eggs for their incubator & got a few chicks back, including Banties. Now I have a mad mixture & I love them all. I'm hoping in the next season to separate out my feather legs & non-feather legs & put the FLs in a copse where they can stay cleaner.

2. Eggs to sell & for us. Cockerels go somewhere, probably for dinner, but I physically cannot kill them & we eat no feather meat. I've given some of my flock to friends

3. Find a chicken lady to talk chicken to! I did a couple of years after we got ours & pre-Shirley (& post-Shirley) we do things by instinct & hope as well as consulting books. Talk to chicken people & compare notes. I butted into a conversation after a concert with someone talking chicken & the friend that took me along in exchange for a bed for the night asked in awe how I knew June Tabor ~ I didn't. I'd never met 1 of the queens of British Folk Music before, but chickens are a great leveller & we chatted chicken.

4. I want my feather-legs (Cochins, Silkies & their crosses) in my small copse area, so they will be fenced in but free to roam their area. & I want to fence the others in another area with access through the old cowshed window. I love having them all roaming freely around my land, but my Beddy likes fresh chicken & she's teaching the Lurcher pup to hunt them. Also there are foxes & mink around. I have my mummy & her 1 remaining chick cooped up with the Partridghe Cochin cockerel after her other 7 chicks were taken. The Cochin is there only because he refuses to sleep in the shed with the other poultry & puts himself to bed in that house. I'm breaking the law as I have chickens & waterfowl all in together & roaming the same land.

5. Garden? What garden. Once they're fenced in I can have a garden ~ so long as the goat fencing holds!

6.They're not fenced in here & wander off into the forestry as well as around my land. I used an unelectrified fence in UK to try to separate the breeds, but the Cochins, who shouldn't fly, would liberate the Welsummers & the Silkies ran out through the holes ~ it WAS Poultry fencing! I may put the horses/ goats in with the chicken for a while if I need foliage clearing, but 1 area only grows nettles at present & I'd love grass to regrow there before letting anything else share it with them. Because they're free-range, totally, they can go join the horses/goats when they're up behind the house. I don't have a chicken tractor.

7.YES

8. No idea! I didn't incubate this year until I was given some eggs specifically to incubate, but next year I'll incubate any eggs that come along (but not all of them ~ I only have 2 incubators!) & I'll try to buy in Cochin, Silky, Welsummer & Maran eggs to hatch to bring in fresh blood to those breeds. At 1 point I had 80 chickens, but disaster struck last year & I have around 27 hens now ~ no idea how many cockerels. I'll also incubate duck eggs & goosey eggs if my girls don't sit.Hope that helps. Chickens are great timewasters & are wonderful things.

http://www.fowlvisions.com/ said...
Since chickens is what I enjoy raising and writing about, I couldn't resist answering your questions:

1. At present I have a RIR and Barred Rock and love both of the hens. I also enjoy raising anything that lays green eggs. I am writing a series on chicken breeds on my blog post and plan on getting some Australorps in the near future due to what I learned about them while researching.

2. My chickens are for the fun or having and the eggs. I have never eaten one yet but that doesn't mean I won't if things got tough.

3. Chicken raising is easy so jump in and get started. Start small with a couple of hens. It is contagious and you will be expanding before long.

4. I love free ranging. We have coops and due to multiple roosters have to choose which coop free ranges for the day, but I like my birds to get exercise.

5. A garden is for next year and I will have a fence around it to keep them out until I am ready to let them in.

6. My husband built me a chicken tractor, mainly for my biddies or little baby chicks. It is an intermediate cage until they are big enough to free range.

7. For the past three years I have had them year round and keep expanding every year.

8. Right now I have 15 4-week old chicks, 4 pullets (less than a year old and not laying), 3 roosters, 4 laying hens multiple breeds.If you are considering raising chickens, it is one of the easiest animals to raise and there are multiple forums available to answer any questions you may have. So jump in and enjoy yourself.

jack-of-all-thumbs said...
I came across your blog on Robert's Roost and read through a lot of useful info on all of the replies.

I would offer two somewhat unique contributions to the discussion. The first is my system of rotational gardening with chickens, based on an easy to manage system of gates, that allows the birds access to unused garden space, while restricting them from active garden areas.

It's here: http://selfsufficientsteward.com/?p=208

The other is a SUPER way of excluding predators from your coop that Alan provided to me months ago. I love it and it is brilliant!

It can be found here: http://selfsufficientsteward.com/?p=220

Alan's answer posted to his blog and his second answer, both copied here:

1. Do you have a particular favorite breed of chicken, and if so what is it and why do you prefer it? Or if more than one, which ones, etc?I really like Red Star from McMurray Hatchery. They aren't as attractive as some of the older breeds, but they produce a lot of eggs for the amount of feed. We have tried others and have enjoyed the visual aspects of lots of different kind of chickens but for egg production, I haven't found them worth the feed cost.

2. Do you use your chickens for your family, to sell, or both? Meat, or eggs, or both?We raise ours for eggs for our family and to sell. We only sell from home. Taking the eggs to market was too much work and there were plenty of others with eggs. Currently we have no problem selling everything we can produce.

3. What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start out raising them, other than reading some good books on the subject?

4. Do you primarily keep your chickens in a coop/enclosed chicken yard, or do they roam your property?Our chickens are enclosed in a yard that we move every few days in the spring, summer, and fall. They follow our herd of goats and cows on pasture, cleaning up the paddocks after we move the herd. We use a coop that we are able to move around the pasture with the chickens.

5. Do you ever let them into your garden? If no, do you have a fence or something to keep them out?In the fall we move the chickens to the garden for clean-up duty. They do a great job and contribute a lot to weed control, bug control, and fertility. We use poultry netting from Premier 1 to contain our chickens. It keeps them in (unless I forget to trim their wings) and keeps the local predators out.

6. Do you ever use a chicken tractor, and if so, is it for meat birds only? do you use electric/ net poultry fencing? I'm interested in which has worked for you and which has not. What has been your experience with pastured poultry 'a la the Joel Salatin sort (follow behind the livestock grazings at the optimum time), if that applies?We don't use chicken tractors. We have used them in the past and found them to be a lot more work than we have time for. Well managed they work well, but you must be able to move them often and monitor them well. I've seen whole pens of birds die in hot weather. We get the same effect with poultry netting and a mobile coop. If you have livestock on pasture, following them with chickens or allowing the chickens to share the same space has a lot of advantages. They really help with fly control and manure management. They also use a lot less feed than chickens in containment.

7. Do you keep chickens year-round, or raise them for seasonal processing?We keep our hens year round. We are finding that moving them off pasture and into a more permanent coop with better protection and light improves our egg production in the winter. We have overwintered our hens in the mobile coop (basically a tent) and had no problem with health or survival, even in 2 feet of snow and -11 deg temps, but egg production really dropped.

8. How many chickens of a certain type do you raise at one time (what works best for you as far as how many to raise at a time?)We maintain a flock of about 50 hens. This fits the mobile coop we have and seems to work in our system. We could sell a lot more eggs than 50 hens produce, but that would require reducing some other aspect of our farm and we choose not to do that.

The most important thing is to decide how many you want and what kind of relationship you want with them. Most people I know who only have a few chickens have them named and pamper them way too much. If you have a lot (more than 20) it's hard to get that attached to any one of them. Healthier in my opinion. I like raising them from chicks. They bond better to me and learn my system. My friend Jack-of-all-thumbs at Self-Sufficient Steward has a great system using a permanent coop and rotates his chickens around his garden. You should check it out.

Homesteading Chicken Question

For all the folks out here in blogland who keep chickens, or have kept chickens, I have a couple questions...

1. Do you have a particular favorite breed of chicken, and if so what is it and why do you prefer it? Or if more than one, which ones, etc?

2. Do you use your chickens for your family, to sell, or both? Meat, or eggs, or both?

3. What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start out raising them, other than reading some good books on the subject?

4. Do you primarily keep your chickens in a coop/enclosed chicken yard, or do they roam your property?

5. Do you ever let them into your garden? If no, do you have a fence or something to keep them out?

6. Do you ever use a chicken tractor, and if so, is it for meat birds only? do you use electric/ net poultry fencing? I'm interested in which has worked for you and which has not. What has been your experience with pastured poultry 'a la the Joel Salatin sort (follow behind the livestock grazings at the optimum time), if that applies?

7. Do you keep chickens year-round, or raise them for seasonal processing?

8. How many chickens of a certain type do you raise at one time (what works best for you as far as how many to raise at a time?)

Inquiring minds (me!) want to know. I've seen so many folks with their own styles of chicken raising, and I'm so curious to know what works best for you...

Need Some Good Sources for Bulk Quantity Apple Cider Vinegar

Calling all animal-care veterans out here...do you have a good source for quality Apple Cider Vinegar in bulk?

I've read so many sources that mention its benefits in animal care across the board, such as in chickens' water, and in cattle feed or water as a fly prevention ( I've heard flies won't bother as much with cows who regularly eat/drink things supplemented with ACV) and mastitis treatment & prevention. It's said to improve the digestive process and stimulate the animal’s appetite by lowering the pH in the gut, and lowers somatic cell counts in dairy cattle. It's said to be good for nearly every sort of homestead animal, such as poultry/sheep/cattle/dogs/goats, as numerous testimonials such as this one attest to. It's also good for people, and our family is beginning to take daily doses of it for our own health.

Does anyone out here have first-hand experience using it, and if so, do you have any good sources where it can be ordered?

Thanks for your help! This could be expensive if we have to buy the smaller quantities...

Photo from http://s3.amazonaws.com/uncooped_uploads_production/photos/781/400px-Apples_medium.jpg

Unexpected Company

The rain today had just let up, and I happened to walk by the back doors, which are windowed. I'm so glad I looked outside just then.

At first glance, at first I registered "hawk!"...but when I did a doubletake, for a second I thought it was wild turkeys. After all, you expect them...or hawks..now and then.

Then I noticed that stunning blue!


And as I observed them out my back french door, they were obviously checking our place out! Peacocks! There were five males, with no females in sight. They spent the first five minutes with their tail feathers upright, facing toward the back ditch. This is why I initially thought they were turkeys...until they turned around. Hellooooo!


The parade was beautiful. The visitors toured Bucketville, and nibbled a couple of things here and there...


They were checking out the various contents of the planted buckets...


Here's a closeup of one...look at that crown! (is that what it's called?)


This fellow was really enjoying himself. It's one of my favorite pictures...


Magnificent!!! Mr. Peacock, you take my breath away.

More parade...


Do they not personify gracefulness, with those lovely curvaceous necks?


Irridescence...


I'm not sure who he's wooing here...no hens around. But it was a really great show!

The rain began again, and they wandered off via the vacant lot next door...

My Favorite Nightlight

...besides the stars, or the moon...

...our Betta tank. These two fellows joined us a couple years ago, after I succumbed to my Animal Rescue urges on a small scale.

( I apologize for the picture quality...it's my fault, not my camera's)

Never, no never take me to the pet store. Or the pet section of any store. Especially where you see little plastic bottles lined up...the Siamese fighting fish, or Bettas, occupying their tiny jails, limply biding their many hours of boredom broken only by occasional surges of male showmanship in which they flare their gills and go into defense mode, veils extended in full glory...and then back to limp and nearly lifeless.

I don't care what anyone says, fish have personalities.



The blue one is my daughter's and the red one is mine. Some things in this world are for beauty, and these are what our two rescue fish bring to our days. At times, we'll leave the tank light on at night in the dark...such a beautiful sight.

Looooooooooove...

I have many more posts to write, but as I sign off for this evening (and procrastinate the rest a couple days longer), here's a pic from the State Fair, in which I fell in love with...a sheep.

Yep, there is a latent, lurking sheperdess in me harkening from some ancient DNA, no doubt. More about all that later; but for now, a pic...

Chicken Wish List

This is the wish list at this point:

Partridge Rock or Wyandotte



Silver Laced Wyandotte

Buff Orpington


Ameraucana


Buckeye


Buff Brahma


Jersey Giant . An alternate choice would be Australorps...any preferences between the two out there?


Barred Plymouth Rock


Golden Laced Wyandotte


If I'm not mistaken, they're all brown/tinted/colored egg layers and are good dual purpose chickens. Does anyone have any feedback as to possible drawbacks to any of these breeds, from experience?

Another question I have is what, if any, is the difference between the Rock type and the Wyandotte type chicken...is there a difference in weight, temperament, hardiness? I often see some of the particular colorations listed for both, but don't really know what would figure into a preference for one over the other.

Are there any particular favorite chicken breeds you might have that aren't here? I'm not experienced and the list is comprised mainly of chickens I'm guessing are good foraging fowl and good for multipurpose egg and meat. And they're really beautiful...

There are so many others I love the look of...these are simply the ones that keep reappearing whenever I narrow down what I am attracted to.

Photos from these sites:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Wyand/PartWyM.JPEG&imgrefurl=http://feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Wyand/BRKWyand.html&h=300&w=275&sz=31&hl=en&start=10&tbnid=avN2GiajdJlP0M:&tbnh=116&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpartridge%2Bwyandotte%2Bchicken%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den
http://www.rupert-fish.co.uk/includes/images/photos/fillongley/buff_orpington_B.I.S..jpg
http://www.brbpoultry.co.uk/SILVER%20LACED%20WYANDOTTE.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mypetchicken.com/images/chickenPix/small/Studio_BuffBrhmaHen_1086_S.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mypetchicken.com/chickenPics.aspx&h=60&w=60&sz=3&hl=en&start=34&tbnid=BAt13nVtUqBXGM:&tbnh=60&tbnw=60&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuff%2Bbrahma%2Bchicken%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/poultry/chickens/jerseygiant/BLKJG.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/poultry/chickens/jerseygiant/index.htm&h=296&w=296&sz=11&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=nOblTwGoag4TDM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djersey%2Bgiant%2Bchicken%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den
http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/SpecialProjects/Eggs/Best-Chicken-full-5.jpg
http://www.mypetchicken.com/PicturePop.aspx?image=images/chickenPix/Large/Studio_BuffAmrcnHen_570_L.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhhUJlNAn5BBBodESJpK3Q1PyTdKCAYUdyUGnBN9V6xSDxsD_RYuBThnqTcJkV-D7KlaoyCw5APId8R1fILgoXxl2VHt-rquASiaHZli8AyLhyphenhyphenWxrH0ryh3f1yFivA6otuW02hpUeJNbz4/s320/FIG.+3-22+BUCKEYE+COCK+(2).JPG&imgrefurl=http://poultrybookstore.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html&h=212&w=320&sz=27&hl=en&start=14&tbnid=nRYNPez74EidmM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuckeye%2Bbreed%2Bof%2Bchicken%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Denhttp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Wyand/GLWyandotteHen.JPEG&imgrefurl=http://feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Wyand/BRKWyand.html&h=369&w=359&sz=40&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=xNgVc6KVqRfbKM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=119&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgolden%2Blaced%2Bwyandotte%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

Ever Feel Like You're Being Watched?

This little bird, or others like him/her, often sits on our phone wire perusing our comings-and-goings. If you look up, all you see is his slim silhouette against the sky, and he's always alone.

I've never been able to get a very good view of the little fellow until I recently got the camera and zoomed in a bit for a peek. I'm not a very steady hand, and the wire's pretty high...etc etc...so this pic is grainy and fuzzy, but still a better glance than what I've had before.

I'm not sure what sort of bird this is...does anyone know? My uneducated guess, based on a list of Florida birds and a few pictures to go by, is that maybe it's a flycatcher...or vireo...or phoebe?

If anyone knows, I'd appreciate it. He's a tiny little thing...

The Animal List

I'm always curious what sorts of animals are homesteaders' favorites. For those of you with animals, which ones are the ones you'd just not want to do without?

Here's a quickie list of what animals I think I'd love someday. Perhaps it will change, be limited modified, etc.


But for now, here 'tis.

1. Irish Dexter Cattle,
for meat and sale, and possibly one to milk

2. Miniature (Guinea) Jersey,
to milk, and love, and did I mention love?? (Gosh, I love Jerseys)

3. Soay Sheep,
for so very very many reasons, the least of which is because I'm in love with them. Wool for the handspinning market, for sale, weed control, survival of the breed, and meat. I LOVE this breed!

4. Chickens,
layers of brown or colored eggs only. For mainly eggs, but some meat, thus dual purpose birds. And I need their poop for fertilizer once it composts.
1. Ameracaunas
2. Black Australorps
3. Buff Orpingtons
4. Partridge Rocks
5. Silver Laced Wyandottes
6. Golden Laced Wyandottes
7. Speckled Sussex
8. Black Jersey Giants

5. Great Pyrenees or other livestock dog, if needed. But I want a dog or two, regardless. I love them, and I don't feel safe without them.

6. Barn cats
to mooch treats, catch rodents, and be enthroned upon laps.

7. Minature donkey,
to adore, and to be a guard companion to the sheep.

8. Dwarf rabbits,
for adoring and for shuttling their poop to the garden.

9. Ducks,
a heritage breed. For beauty. And making life miserable for snakes. Maybe occasionally meat. Maybe.

10. Geese,
heritage breed, weeding and meat. And making life miserable for snakes.

11. Horse,
gentle one for riding. Preferred breed, Rocky Mountain.

12. Bees,
I love bees and really want them because there need to be more bees, and I'd love the pollenation benefits. And honey!

13. Wildebeest (Who Gnu??)
Just kidding. Just seeing if I put anyone to sleep...




:)

Dog Days of Winter

While most of the country is buried under several layers of ice and the white stuff, I live in Florida. This happened because upon marrying my husband, he had obligations here and could not relocate to MY area of the country, Tennessee. Which is to say the first year of our marriage was spent not only adjusting to sharing the comforter and the bathroom sink, but also in mourning my lost South.

Well, small price to pay for a wonderful husband and all the memories that have resulted :)

I occasionally have a hard time re-orienting myself to being in this location. It appears we need a very warm weather area due to my hub's sensitivity to cold weather. He's a hale and hearty fellow who loves a good day's hard work in the blistering sun, but plant him in any weather below about 70 degrees and he whines. And he gets asthma and goes around moaning and looking pitiful. It's sad when the male of the species is reduced to this sort of spectacle.

I give the man his dignity and endure the heat.

I, however, am always too hot. I'm one of those women who welcomes cold weather with relief, and loves to snuggle in to at least a little true wintertime and nest indoors, baking and keeping the fireplace stoked. I appreciate the break in the seasons. No, I'm no true northerner, but I do like at least a hint of four seasons.

Well, winter here is like one continual pre-fall, with perhaps one freeze just for kicks. We haven't run the heater more than 3 days tops this entire past few months, and we nearly did have to run the AC (but I'm trying to forgo that as long as possible, with the windows open and fans on).

OUR dog days of winter, around OUR house, have been going something like this:

Me: I know we're keeping things simple so we can pay off our debts. But I need something to take care of. Like an animal. A dog. Or a cat. If I had a dog, I'd never feel paranoid at night that an intruder might be lurking. And the raccoons wouldnt have as much fun at the birdfeeder.

Him: We've already had the dog conversation. We were unemployed a good part of last year and we're only now getting back on our feet. R's college is coming up in only a few months. (He rubs his head and starts looking a little stressed)

Me: Dogs are good for relieving stress. You look stressed.

Him: (laughing) Yes, you're stressing me out. We have this conversation at least once a week.

Me: (hopeful) Well, if we had a dog, we wouldnt have to have the conversation any more...


I had to leave my family dog to an adopted family before leaving to come here. The hurricanes had devastated this area, and when relocating here as a newlywed with my daughter, there were no available rentals that allowed dogs at that time...because there were very few affordable rentals at all. The one we found insisted, NO animals.

I have missed my dog daily since. I'm just not going to talk about it, that's how much I miss him when I think of him. No, I don't think of animals as people, but Shadow was an important part of my divorcee years (of not-so-blessed-memory), and I'm sad he's not here.

The other day, I was driving down the road in TNTWD (the Nissan that won't die), and saw a line of cars stopped ahead. I slowed, and the line of cars behind me slowed. It was a two-lane near my home, where suburb meets country-soon-to-be-suburb. In the middle of the road were two beautiful golden retrievers, playing with an empty paper cup. I halted feet away from them. They just looked up and wagged at the oncoming traffic.

The other stopped car facing me honked for them to move. The cars behind him were adding up. The dogs just wagged...and stayed in the middle of the road.

Remembering one of Shadow's favorite things, I leaned out my rolled-down window and whistled to them. I reached back to the back inside door handle and opened the back door. "Come on, guys!" I beckoned, and they looked up, interested.

I recommend having a couple of discarded lunch bags in the backseat of any car whose AC is broken, speedometer doesnt work, is over 17 years old and won't die....for such an event. Call it "emergency supplies." I called to the dogs again and made dog-wooing noises. Something had to be done quickly before a car in the line behind me decided they didnt want to wait and tried to go around.

The dogs ran up to investigate me and peered into the backseat. The discarded lunch bags worked their magic. The windows were all at half-mast and the old Chick Fil-A bags were ripe. It was dog heaven. The jumped in good-naturedly, sat down on the back seat, and panted happily.

I was one happy camper!

I turned the car around at the next street and began to look down the main road to see where they may have escaped. It couldnt have been far. They were GORGEOUS, full-grown, and very people-friendly. And no collars.

Sure enough, in a driveway down just a few hundred yards came running a desperate looking man, and I waved to him to put his mind at ease. When it was clear to cross, I pulled into his drive and told him what had happened. It appears he lives on about 10 or 20 acres, and I offered to drive them up the really long drive, since the the only fence was well back onto the property. He said yes and met me behind the fenced area.

I'll cut to the chase. I got out and let the dogs out, and they acted like I was their long lost mom. Most golden retrievers are this way to folks who are friendly, yeah, I know :) I was giving them a farewell hug and pet, and told the guy it's obvious these dogs are well-loved and cared for, and I glad they didnt come to any harm. And they're gorgeous! (I said all this while being licked in the face by both animals).

The the man said "Do you want them?"

Huh?

"You mean do I want your dogs?" I asked, confused. "I let them into my car in order to get them off the road so they wouldn't get hurt, but I had no intention of taking your dogs for myself," I reassured him.

"No," he said, "I mean you seem to really like the dogs and I wondered if you wanted them."

"Uhhh...who wouldn't want these guys?" I asked. "I've been wanting a dog, and who wouldn't? Why do you ask? Why are you wanting to give them away?"

"My family just split up, and these were the kids' dogs. Now they don't have anyone to really spend much time with them."

I wasn't really processing this very quickly, because I was so stunned a guy would offer these dogs to a complete stranger he knew nothing about. I gave the guy my phone number and told him to give me a call, that I needed to talk to my husband.

"Think about it and if your family decides that's what everybody wants, give me a call," I said. "I'm not positive I could keep them, but I'd be willing to discuss it." I said. I said this because I could already imagine the spectre of my being disowned by my lovely husband...ha!

I got home and J was there. And yes, I DID try the I Saved The Dogs And This Must Be Destiny conversation. He hugged me and kissed me and was supportive.

It boils down to the fact that we're not set up for animals yet. Yes, were I still single, I'd have taken the dogs, paid for their upkeep and kibble out of my current grocery budget, and have come home daily to chewed up furniture and dog hair, and possibly worse (been there, done that, survived it well before).

But then we did The Adult Thing and looked at what we can provide NOW with what we have NOW, and our outdoor accomodations NOW...and came up lacking. This is the reason my husband is NOT in financial trouble, but I was before I met him. I listened to reason, and the fact that he also LOVES dogs and cats and WILL be agreeable to them WHEN we're at that point. I felt like a junior high kid being told she can't have a pony. But I knew this was an adult decision for the long-term, and relinquished myself to my present animal-deficient state. Not so gracefully, but we both agreed...in the end. We DON'T have acreage, nor a fence, nor extra money for food and vet.

Sigh...

I wasn't so sure the full impact of my resignation and agreement had been appreciated by J. He reminded me that because we're doing the right thing NOW, we're approaching the day faster when we CAN do these things. He grabbed me, held me, kissed me repeatedly...all very supportively. I'm telling you, he's a great guy. It's just that I was not yet fully devoid of pique. "Yeah, Robbyn, grow up...do the right thing, " I silently coached myself.

"Well...when we CAN have animals, I get to pick 'em!" I mumbled to J who was still giving me a "now-that's-a-good-sport" sort of embrace as we sat on the couch. He was far too jolly.

MmmWWWAAAAHH!! He planted a final That's-the-end-of-THAT kiss on my cheek. "Now what's for dinner?"

"Thanks for discussing it. I still wish we could get the dogs," I concluded.

"That's what I'm here for, honey!" he replied, way too cheerfully for my mood. How can some people be so darn cheerful when declining to care for The Dogs of Destiny?

"I'll get dinner started," I said. "Oh, and by the way, the smooching on the couch just now was kinda fun. Did I happen to mention the dogs licked me all over the face only minutes ago?"

;-) heehee




I' got a call from the dog owner just yesterday. I'm going to help him find a good home (not MINE) for the dogs.